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Hi Greg C.,

Thanks for the reply. I am running ST4i v4.0c on a desktop Win 10 v1803 computer. If it's OK with Greg Jones, I'll try his IS using his location from the .stx file and the Mesa Redonda location to see if location makes a difference. I don't know if he's defined his IS with a fixed location or not. I'm also curious if the problem is related to the number of objects Greg J. is trying to Auto Schedule in a single operation or if he's seen the high IQ line during daylight on any of the other Night Bar displays.

If he can schedule M33 correctly as a single operation, a work-around may be to schedule each object individually using the 'Ctrl-s' command until this is sorted out.

I'll wait for Greg Jones' OK before I download his Imaging Systems. Since he's reported problems with both IS, I'll use the 80mm refractor system. It also has the issue of picking up the 400mm f/5.6 lens instead of the refractor. I have 2 IS with 400mm f/5.6 lenses defined, but one is piggyback & the other is 'camera only' using a different camera.

Hopefully I can provide some insight Smile ,

Phil S.
Phil, Yes you can load my imaging system files.

I rebooted my computer today and started a new session of ST4i and I get the same behavior. I can actually get the high image quality during the day with the following simpler steps:

When I am on the Target Selection tab and I select an object like M33 I see its image quality blue line looking normal. I then go to the Scheduler tab and click on M33 in its list (before I click Auto Schedule), and I see the image quality blue line high during daylight hours.

So, in the Scheduler tab nothing is currently scheduled and I have not clicked the Auto Schedule button. I simply go to the Scheduler tab and click on M33 in the list of projects on the left side of the screen. And I see the image quality line high in chart during daylight hours. This also happens for several other imaging projects. Not just M33.

Thank you,
Greg Jones
Hi Greg J.,

Thanks for your OK to use your 80mm based Imaging System to try to resolve your problems with the Scheduler. A few points:

1) This occurs after the computer is rebooted & ST4i is opened afresh so it's not caused by some past operations in ST4i - good, it's unlikely I could reproduce that.

2) The high IQ line occurs before the Scheduler actually schedules anything, but the Night Bar display shows high IQ during the day - this suggests that I don't need to create Imaging Projects for the additional targets displayed on your initial Scheduler display (less work for me  Wink ). At least I can start with just M33 & see what happens.

A question: how does the Night Bar in the Exposure Calculator behave for M33? Like the Target Selector or the Scheduler?

Also, what happens if you change the date for the Scheduler, say to 2/23/19? I've seen the date of observation cause unexpected effects. What happens if you change the site location to Mesa Redonda? I'm assuming that your IS is portable since you mentioned your club's dark sky site.

I'll let you know how this goes as soon as I have something,

Phil S.

Update: I have downloaded the 80mm IS file (12:32 EST)
Hi Gregs,

After downloading Greg J.'s 80mm based Imaging System here is my first cut at his problem. His IS comes with the location 'My Backyard' but the location is not fixed and I didn't use it. I used Mesa Redonda as the observing site as it is available to all ST4i users. As Greg C. noted the 'My Backyard' site has high light pollution and the Night Bar display shows this additional sky brightness when 'My Backyard' is the selected observing site.

I created a new Observing Project for M33 using Greg J.'s Imaging System. Unfortunately I couldn't tell from the Scheduler screen-shot that he posted exactly how to set the OP on my computer. I set ISO to 400 and used the 'Total Exposure Time' option set for 50 min total exposure and forced the sub-exposures to 2 min (Greg J.'s attachment showing the Scheduler had an exposure of 25x2min for M33). I just noticed that there isn't an option to 'Save' an Observing Project so it can be shared with someone else. That would simplify what I'm trying to do now.

The Scheduler date was set to 2/3 Mar 2019 (the same as that used by Greg J.). For the first scheduling attempt I set Image Quality to 'A'. The screen-shot is attached as 'M33 Scheduled (Greg J. test).png'. The blue IQ line was low during the day and rose to IQ of 'C' after dark. The Scheduler would not schedule M33. When I decreased the requested IQ to 'C',  M33 was scheduled as shown in 'M33 Scheduled (Greg J. test) Scheduled with IQ - C.png' attached. This schedule uses the 400mm f/5.6 lens that Greg J. mentioned up-thread instead of the 80mm refractor OTA. I did not see the high IQ blue line during daylight that Greg J. observed when he ran the Scheduler.

Based on what Greg J. mentioned up-thread, I expected to see the high blue line for M33 during daylight, but I did not. He got the problem after rebooting his computer and restarting ST4i then trying to schedule M33 using his IS. I used his IS at a different observing site with an Imaging Program that I created and couldn't replicate the problem. I don't know how to get a copy of his Observing Project so I can test that.

I'll let you guys think about this for a bit before I try anything else. If you see anything that I messed up, let me know & I'll try again. Hopefully the problem isn't related to the number of objects being scheduled at once.

Hopefully this will shed some light on what's happening here,

Phil S.
(2019-02-21, 07:17 PM)PMSchu Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Gregs,

After downloading Greg J.'s 80mm based Imaging System here is my first cut at his problem. His IS comes with the location 'My Backyard' but the location is not fixed and I didn't use it. I used Mesa Redonda as the observing site as it is available to all ST4i users. As Greg C. noted the 'My Backyard' site has high light pollution and the Night Bar display shows this additional sky brightness when 'My Backyard' is the selected observing site.

I created a new Observing Project for M33 using Greg J.'s Imaging System. Unfortunately I couldn't tell from the Scheduler screen-shot that he posted exactly how to set the OP on my computer. I set ISO to 400 and used the 'Total Exposure Time' option set for 50 min total exposure and forced the sub-exposures to 2 min (Greg J.'s attachment showing the Scheduler had an exposure of 25x2min for M33). I just noticed that there isn't an option to 'Save' an Observing Project so it can be shared with someone else. That would simplify what I'm trying to do now.

The Scheduler date was set to 2/3 Mar 2019 (the same as that used by Greg J.). For the first scheduling attempt I set Image Quality to 'A'. The screen-shot is attached as 'M33 Scheduled (Greg J. test).png'. The blue IQ line was low during the day and rose to IQ of 'C' after dark. The Scheduler would not schedule M33. When I decreased the requested IQ to 'C',  M33 was scheduled as shown in 'M33 Scheduled (Greg J. test) Scheduled with IQ - C.png' attached. This schedule uses the 400mm f/5.6 lens that Greg J. mentioned up-thread instead of the 80mm refractor OTA. I did not see the high IQ blue line during daylight that Greg J. observed when he ran the Scheduler.

Based on what Greg J. mentioned up-thread, I expected to see the high blue line for M33 during daylight, but I did not. He got the problem after rebooting his computer and restarting ST4i then trying to schedule M33 using his IS. I used his IS at a different observing site with an Imaging Program that I created and couldn't replicate the problem. I don't know how to get a copy of his Observing Project so I can test that.

I'll let you guys think about this for a bit before I try anything else. If you see anything that I messed up, let me know & I'll try again. Hopefully the problem isn't related to the number of objects being scheduled at once.

Hopefully this will shed some light on what's happening here,

Phil S.

Phil: Thanks for testing this. Too bad the high IQ during the day issue does not behave the same way for you. But, it is good that the issue of the scheduler using a 400mm lens instead of the correct 80mm OTA is reproduced for you.

I tested again using the Mesa Redonda location and I get the same bad behavior. I also tried the Exposure Calculator and it displays a normal IQ line for M33. And this was from selecting M33 from the Scheduler list and right-clicking to get to the Exposure Calculator. See the attached screen shot. I just noticed that the Exposure Calculator shows the "My Backyard" location. I changed that to the Mesa Redonda location and the Exposure Calculator had the same correct looking IQ line.

Thank you,
Greg Jones
Hi Greg J.,

Yes, I'm sorry that I couldn't reproduce your anomalously high IQ problem for M33 when using the Scheduler. It's interesting that you don't even need to schedule M33. Just highlighting it causes things to get wonky. The behavior of the Exposure Calculator when called from the Scheduler is curious too.

A question Greg, when this happens, do you always have that long list of items listed for the Scheduler? I know that there's no way to remove a Target once it's put on the Scheduler's list, short of deleting the Imaging Project, but have you tried to make a special Observing Program containing just the M33 Imaging Project? How does the Scheduler behave if you do that? Will the Scheduler work correctly if just the M33 Imaging Project is listed?

This is a really weird problem that you've uncovered. I hope that we've found enough clues that the Skyhound can track down the solution.

Phil S.
I created a new "Test Observing Program" and created a single imaging project of M33 for it. I get exactly the same incorrect behavior.

See the attached screen shot.

Regards,
Greg Jones
Hi Greg J.,

I was hoping that we could find a work-around for your problem, but no-joy in that regard. I assume that you're using Version 4.0c of ST4i. I think that ST4i applies the updates automatically.

This looks like a job for the Skyhound. Is M33 the only target that behaves this way? How does M33 behave if you move the date back to November 2018? Is the Imaging Project for M33 that you tried in the 'Test' Imaging Program the same one that caused the original problem or did you create a new IP?

Sorry, I'm grasping at straws here,

Phil S.

P. S. Another thought. Are you subscribed to the iTelescopes? Maybe an IP for one of the New Mexico scopes & M33 would be informative.
Hello,

I was finally able to reproduce the problem where the schedule displayed a lens for the camera that is in fact attached to a telescope. This turns out to have been a simple labelling error, and does not in any way affect the calculations. I have it fixed for the upcoming update.

So far I haven't been able to reproduce the high IQ during the day, but it may be that one of the fixes that I have already implemented resolved that one. I will continue to test.

Clear skies,
Greg
I am glad the lens display issue was a simple fix.

On the other issue with the high IQ during the day, I am willing to help test any fixes you might have.

When I discovered SkyTools 4 Imaging a few months ago I thought this was exactly what I needed. The idea of starting at the planning phase then going on to scheduling and execution is very much in line with my way of thinking.

I want ST4i to be very successful.


Thank You for bringing ST4i to us!


Greg Jones
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