SkyTools 4.0h Update Notes

[theskyhound]

Hello Everyone,

I have released the long-awaited version 4.0h update for both SkyTools 4 Visual and SkyTools 4 Imaging.

The full list of fixes are here:
https://skyhound.com/stupdate4.html

This update is primarily about fixes and small improvements, but there are some things that I would like to bring to your attention.

SkyTools Visual Real Time, Best Now Mode
A new feature has been added to automatically hide objects from the list after you observe them. It uses the Observation Status filter to do this. To use the feature, enable  Automatically Mark Objects as Observed on the Telescope menu. Ensure that the Observation Status column is displayed. Right-click on the Observation Status column heading and remove the check next to Observed. Doing so will hide all objects that have been marked as observed. When this feature is enabled, as you move to a new target, the previous target will be marked as observed, which will hide it from the list. The status applies to the selected list only, and can be reset via the right-click menu on the Observation Status column header.

SkyTools 3 Sync (for SkyTools 4 Visual)
Ratings were not properly imported from SkyTools 3 in the previous version. If you are missing your ratings from SkyTools 3, perform the Sync again, on Attachments only. It may require deleting the SkyTools 4 attachment folder with the notes that have missing ratings prior to the new Sync for your ratings to appear.

SkyTools 4 Imaging
I am in the process of improving SkyTools 4 for use with DSLR cameras. There are additional factors that need to be considered to accurately model a DSLR in SkyTools. Until the DSLR update, I recommend the following to improve the the modelling of a DSLR camera:

1. Open Imaging Systems, and select an Imaging System that uses a DSLR.
2. Under Mirror Efficiency click on Advanced.
3. Select the Color filter (Clr) in the top position
4. Enter 0.45 to the right of the Clr filter
5. Click Ok

Printed Charts
For some printers, the transparency setting causes ugly hatch patterns on the printed chart. The fix for this is to reset all filled components to 100% (all of the way to the right side). The update replaces the Black And White printer chart preferences scheme with the fix applied, so if you see this problem, select the black on shite chart scheme to apply it to your chart.


P.S. I accidentally deleted the first version of this thread! Also, questions, comments or other discussion are quite welcome here. But if you have any problems after the update, please post in the appropriate support forum.

[BFlanagan]

Hello Greg,

Thanks for the new version 4.0h.  I was curious if you still had plans to add back some of the features in the "Real Time Observing" tab were available in ST3.  In particular some of the simpler modes of operation like "Above Horizon", etc. that would allow you to sort the list on the columns.

Thanks,
Bill

[theskyhound]

Hello Greg,

Thanks for the new version 4.0h.  I was curious if you still had plans to add back some of the features in the "Real Time Observing" tab were available in ST3.  In particular some of the simpler modes of operation like "Above Horizon", etc. that would allow you to sort the list on the columns.

Thanks,
Bill

Hi Bill,

I prefer to focus each tool on its essential task. I think that is the better design, rather than to muddy everything by trying to make it a jack of all trades. This is why there are separate tools in the first place. So in my view, the "spreadsheet" type capabilities are best left for the Nightly Planner, which can easily be switched to, even when at the telescope. If there are limitations of the Real Time tool--things that it really needs to be able to do for use at the telescope--then I am very interested in hearing them.

So if you find yourself thinking, "I want to do X but I can't" or "It is too clunky or difficult to do Y" then please describe the circumstances and I will find the best solution.

[BFlanagan]

Hi Greg,

Well one thing I did with ST3 was use it to help me build a pointing model. I had a list of alignment stars that I would sort by HA and show only those on the list above the horizon. This would allow me to quickly work one on side of the meridian and then the other by using the list sorted by HA as a guide. I could even sort HA up and down always placing the stars I wanted to use on the top of the list. Doing this in the Nightly Planner not only makes the list longer (because it contains all the stars above and below the horizon), it also does not provide the current status of the object like its altitude, HA, and azimuth. Also in ST4 the "Best Now" seems to leave stars off this list because I guess they are not consider good candidates for observing at the present. So when this happens I have to manually move to the star.

I also found that when at the telescope I would often sort the real time list by other things like transit time, declination, current altitude or azimuth, etc. when I wanted to compare the current status of the objects on the list. If I wanted to focus my observing on a particular type of object, I would sort the list by object type. I found this very useful when preparing and culling Star Party Observing list because I could easily compare objects as I whittled down the list. At least in ST4 I can filter by object type but when I want to look at the whole list sorted this way I have to switch back to the Nightly Planner which doesn't provide any real time information.

If I wanted to avoid doing a lot of meridian flips while observing, I would sort the list by transit time and catch objects either just before or after they transited depending on what side of the meridian I was on. The HA shown for this object would also make it easy to see what candidate objects were getting ready to transit or long it was since they transited.

I guess I just need to get used to switching back and forth between Nightly Planner and Real Time Observing while at the telescope, but it is a bit cumbersome while observing especially when the two lists cannot be arranged in the same order. Also the Nightly Planner does not show or allow you to sort on the current status of the object. Seems like I just got use to using the "Nightly Planner" during the daytime while planning observing sessions and the "Real Time Observing" at night while observing.

Anyway, I still have ST3 installed and can still use it for some of these tasks, especially the pointing model building.

Thanks for listening,
Bill

[theskyhound]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your detailed response. I really appreciate it. I want to ask some questions so that I can better understand, if you don't mind.

Regarding the alignment stars, this is something that I am aware of and a feature for this purpose is in the works.

Regarding the object type. I am not certain that I understand properly. As you note, the Real Time tool does have a filter for object class. But you seem to want more than this. When only those objects of a given class are selected in the Best Now mode, say Galaxies, it will tell you which galaxies are best observed at that moment in time. How is that not sufficient for your purpose? (you mention seeing the whole list in the Nightly Planner). Isn't that what you want? If not, what is the advantage of not having the objects sorted into the best objects being at the top? Keeping in mind that we are observing in real time and not planning ahead. What am I missing?

Meridian flips are something else that I am currently working on. The idea is to add an awareness of meridian flips to the sort order so it isn't so dumb about it. That should not be all that difficult. Another feature will be to force one side of the pier only for the entire session. If that box is checked then the list will only feature objects that are at their best and don't require a flip.

Do you see where I am coming from though? The new Real Time is sort of in its infancy. I want to address these problems within the new framework rather than simply throw my hands up in the air and allow people to circumvent it completely. I want the end result to be a better tool.

[BFlanagan]

Hi Greg,

First I want say that I’m really excited about the new features available in ST4 Real Time Observing like the “Best Now” mode, the Quality Curve and the two colored bars summarizing quality and observing difficulty.  I predict that “Best Now” will be my default mode of operation while observing.  I previously spent most of the time with the mode set to “Above 2X (Airmass) Only” and tried, when possible, to observe objects when they were near the meridian.  Sorry if I am mourning the loss of some of the features that were available in ST3 Real Time, but I will try to explain when I found them useful (without hopefully getting too long winded).

Telescope pointing model – We’ve already covered this and it sounds like you have a few ideas for this in future releases.  Perhaps this is an example of me using ST for something beyond its intended design and essential task but I found it very easy to adapt the real time observing feature for this task and it performed extremely well.

Meridian flips – We covered this one and sounds like it you have been thinking about it.  But maybe it’s not a big issue.  It seems like with V4.0h objects are sorted mostly by HA especially as they approach the meridian.  I just recall a couple weeks ago this not being the case.  I wish I would have saved that example.

Time is short – Okay it’s a great night but I’m running out of observing time, and there are a couple of objects on my list I really want to observe, however they are not on the “Best Now” list.  At this point I guess I should go back to the Nightly Planner for observing.

The selection criteria for making the “Best Now” list seems to be related not just to the position of the object in the sky, but also the size of the list and the length of time that it’s considered good (I assume the decision comes primarily from your quality factor which I really like by the way).  For example I have a bright star list which in ST3 shows 24 out of 49 objects available.  In ST4 this same list shows 17 out of 49 available.  Checking the ST3 list I see a number of objects that have not made to the ST4 list that are brighter and higher in the sky than some that have made it to the list in ST4.  For example, Nunki made the cut at magnitude 2.0 and 19.5 degrees altitude.  However, both Deneb and Altair are brighter and higher in the sky but did not make the cut.  In fact both are above a 2x air mass at 33.3 and 31.5 degrees altitude respectively.  I guess because they are available later in the night when they are better positioned they did not make the “Best Now” cut.  So even if an object is reasonably placed in the sky it may not necessarily show up on the Real Time Observing list.  I’ve also seen this with deep sky objects.  For example, the Veil at altitude +59.5 degrees did not make the cut but NGC 3928 at +17.0 degrees did.  In this case if I wanted to observe the Veil before I shut things down I should go to the Nightly Planner where I can make my log and observation entries.

Cloud avoidance – On some occasions where I would lose large portions of sky due to cloud banks, I would sort the list (by HA, declination, or azimuth) to place all the currently unobscured objects closer together on the list.  I can do this in the Nightly Planner but it does not allow sorting on the current azimuth nor does it show the current altitude.  Not a big deal to lose this one.

Observing Thin Moon Crescents – At times I would use ST to help a group of us observe extremely thin moon crescents.  I have not tried this yet with ST4, but I have used ST3 in real time to provide a continuous update of the altitude and azimuth of the moon to aid us hunting for the crescent.  It looks like this may work in ST4 for setting crescents.  I think the moon will pass the “Best Now” selection in bright twilight especially if I make a special list where it is the only object.  However, for rising crescents I don’t think it will show the moon position data until it has risen.  In the rising case, ST3 would give us a nice countdown to moon rise with a continuous update of its altitude and azimuth and help guide us where to hunt on the horizon, catching it just as it sneaked above the horizon.  I have used the ephemerides function for this also which is still available in ST4.  But the real time observing mode was convenient to use gave us updates in real time.  Okay maybe this one is not a big deal either since it is way off course from the essential tasks of ST.  It’s just another example one of my oddball real time observing applications of ST3.

Regarding Object Class – You asked me specifically for an answer on this so I will try to explain what I did with ST3.  For the past few years I’ve been creating the observing program for the Eldorado Star Party.  After deciding on a theme (usually the hardest part), I would rely heavily on the Nightly Planner to come up with a candidate list of around 60 to 80 objects to observe.  As I observed these objects over a number of nights I would make notes in SkyTools logs and begin the process of sorting them with the goal of reducing the list to about 25 objects.  This is where, while I was observing, I might sort the list on things like object class, observed status, logged status, priority, magnitude etc. to see where things currently stood and adjust my observing priorities to whittle down the list.  With the list sorted, I could easily count and compare how many of each object class I had observed to get the mix I was after; compare logging notes to adjust rankings, etc.  I just found the spreadsheet form handy for this task, even while observing, because it gave me all the information I needed in one place and helped me decide during the night what to observe next.  Most of this I can do in ST4 by switching to the Nightly Planner and if I need any real time data to help my decision I can switch back to Real Time and hope the object has made the cut.  Interesting that during the daytime when not observing I would always default to the Nightly Planner to make these adjustments and decisions.

One thing I find a little cumbersome when switching back and forth between Nightly Planner and Real Time Observing is that it is quite a bit slower (due to the list being cleared and refreshed) and you lose your place (the object you had selected is no longer highlighted).  In ST3, sorting the list in Real Time while observing was extremely fast.  I think tended to use the column sort feature in real time more than the class filter because it was fast and made it easy to count how many of each class I now had on the list.

Side note – Here is perhaps another case where I would use ST features beyond their design intent.  I would use the priority tag to rank the objects, rather than the object rating, so that the ranking only applied to the list I was currently working on.

Idle Curiosity – Where’s Pluto?  Just for fun, and when the night got long and things got silly my observing buddy would sometimes ask me “Where’s Pluto?”  I would answer, okay let’s ask Sky Tools.  Bringing up the Sun, Moon and Planet list in the Real Time tab would quickly give me Pluto’s current azimuth and altitude.  My buddy would get a good laugh when I pointed to a bare patch of grass on the ground (although he would still say he could see it naked eye if he used averted vision).

Anyway, the point here is that with ST3 I could find the current status of any object in its database at any time without much effort.  With ST4 real time data is only available for those objects which have passed the “Best Now” criteria.  With ST4 Pluto has to pass the “Best Now” criteria before I can answer my buddy’s question.  Not an essential task but fun nonetheless.

Sorry, maybe I’m getting long winded and a little too silly here myself.  Perhaps, one suggestion that would go far in helping my weird observing routines is to just have a “Show All” selection in the Real Time Observing Tab.  I may not be able sort the list by columns but at least it would present the current observing and real time status of all the objects on the list regardless of whether they are considered “Best Now”.  It would also help answer questions I may have like, “Why is object X not showing on the real time list?” and of course “Where is Pluto?”  I promise I am not trying to circumvent the nice new features you have added to ST4 (with tons of hard work I’m sure).  I’m a big proponent of being patient as possible, waiting for objects to get to a position in the sky that shows them at their best.

Thanks again,
Bill

[theskyhound]

Time is short – Okay it’s a great night but I’m running out of observing time, and there are a couple of objects on my list I really want to observe, however they are not on the “Best Now” list.  At this point I guess I should go back to the Nightly Planner for observing.

The selection criteria for making the “Best Now” list seems to be related not just to the position of the object in the sky, but also the size of the list and the length of time that it’s considered good (I assume the decision comes primarily from your quality factor which I really like by the way).  For example I have a bright star list which in ST3 shows 24 out of 49 objects available.  In ST4 this same list shows 17 out of 49 available.  Checking the ST3 list I see a number of objects that have not made to the ST4 list that are brighter and higher in the sky than some that have made it to the list in ST4.  For example, Nunki made the cut at magnitude 2.0 and 19.5 degrees altitude.  However, both Deneb and Altair are brighter and higher in the sky but did not make the cut.  In fact both are above a 2x air mass at 33.3 and 31.5 degrees altitude respectively.  I guess because they are available later in the night when they are better positioned they did not make the “Best Now” cut.  So even if an object is reasonably placed in the sky it may not necessarily show up on the Real Time Observing list.  I’ve also seen this with deep sky objects.  For example, the Veil at altitude +59.5 degrees did not make the cut but NGC 3928 at +17.0 degrees did.  In this case if I wanted to observe the Veil before I shut things down I should go to the Nightly Planner where I can make my log and observation entries.

The Best Now list shows all objects that are observable at that time, unless you specifically filter them out. So it is difficult for me to reconcile with your comments above (and in the rest of your post). The only thing I can think of is that you are using the other mode instead. Real Time has two modes: Best Now and Sky Tour. These modes are vastly different. The Sky Tour mode needs to be understood in detail and it has a much narrower purpose.

Please check that you are indeed using the Best Now mode. Look for the setting under "Mode of Operation."

The Sky Tour is actually pretty cool, but it is not for everyone, and can suffer from many of the problems you have outlined.

[BFlanagan]

By observable, are you saying that the "Best Now" mode will show all objects above the horizon when all the filters are turned off?  If so, this is not the result that I am getting.

I went back and simulated the Veil example mentioned in my last post by manually setting the PC clock and comparing results from ST3 to ST4. I used an observing list of 70 objects (the 2019 TSP Smoke & Mirrors)  I've double checked everything, reset all filters, check the observing location, made sure the mode is in "Best Now", refreshed the list multiple times and reset the filters multiple times.  I made sure that Quality was set to "Any" and Difficulty was set to "Ignore Difficulty".  While carefully checking everything I did notice the sky brightness for the location was originally set to 20.6 mag/arsecsqr.  This does make a difference in the results.  I was assuming that by turning the Quality and Difficulty filters off that the sky brightness would not come into play.  I changed the sky brightness to Bortle 1 or 22 mag/arsecsqr and got the results below.

ST3 is set to "Above Horizon Only" and ST4 set to "Best Now".  All filters are turned off and the sky brightness in ST4 is set to Bortle 1. The telescope aperture is 14" and I forced myself to be an 18 year old observer with a 6.9 mm pupil size.  I used tonight as the date and set the time manually to 11:00 PM and 12:00 AM.  The 11:00 PM time is and 1hr 4 minutes past the end of astronomical twilight (according the ST4).  I'm using ST4 V4.0h.

At 11:00 PM .... ST3 shows 59 out of 70 objects and the Veil at 48 degrees.  ST4 shows 40 out of 70 objects and the Veil (west) is not shown on the list.
At 12:00 AM .... ST3 shows 57 out of 70 objects and the Veil at 60 degrees.  ST4 shows 30 out of 70 objects and the Veil now shows on the list.

When I had the sky brightness set to 20.6 the Veil would not show up on the ST4 list until 1:00 AM at an altitude of 72 degrees and I got smaller numbers in the available objects shown on the ST4 list.

I did not repeat the experiment with the bright stars case I mentioned in my last post but I can if you like.

I have learned that I need to be careful setting the sky brightness in real time mode as it still comes into play even when you have the Quality and Difficulty filters turned off.

Sorry to bother you so much.... What am I doing wrong here?
Bill

[BFlanagan]

A little more information.  Using the observing list I mentioned in my last post with 70 objects and switching between "Best Now" and "Sky Tour" with a Date/Time of July 19 at 11:00 pm (23:00:00 GMT-5) I get the following.

Sky Tour.... 3 objects -- M65, the Veil (west) and the Iris Nebula.  M65 is listed as undetectable at 3deg 15min altitude.
Best Now.... 39 out of 79 objects available.  No M65 or Veil.  The Iris Nebula is the last object on the list.

I get similar results 5 minutes later at 11:05 PM, just slightly different objects

Sky Tour ... 3 objects  -- NGC4627, the Veil and the Iris nebula
Best Now ... 37 out of 70 objects available.  No NGC4627 or Veil.  The Iris nebula is the last object on the list

This seems like odd behavior.  Maybe it's time to reinstall.  Although I get similar results on the ST4 installation on my laptop.

Bill

[theskyhound]

Please do not re-install! That seldom changes anything.

I doubt very much if there is a problem with the software. I think maybe you are just misunderstanding something or have an expecation for the tool that is out of line with what it does.

I can't say much of anything of use because I don't have the critical data about your telescopes, eyepieces, location, weather settings etc.

I just tested things for me and it worked just as expected. Please try to do what I did, and then send me screen captures of the Real Time window and the Nightly Planner. Here is what to do:

1. Wait until it is dark (or play with the time, although I hate to see people do that because it can wreak havok with your computer).
2. Start Real Time and make sure it is in Best Now Mode
3. Select your observing list
4. Right-click on the red check mark at the top of the check mark column and select Clear All
5. Right-click again and select check Displayed
6. Take a screen capture of the entire Real Time window

7. Open the Nightly Planner
8. Make sure it is set for the same date and select the same list. Turn off all filters.
9. Highlight the object that you think should have been displayed on Real Time by selecting it
10. Send me a screen capture of the entire Nightly Planner Window