Attempt to View 2021 NA Last Night July 2

[theskyhound]

Hello,

Oops. I think that choice is a deprecated feature. Possibly going back to SkyTools 2, geeze! It should not be there. Please use the Add Minor Planet button. It will find the right place to insert the orbital elements.

[bigmasterdrago]

Okie-Dokie Thanks again

[bigmasterdrago]

One thing to add that you guys may not be aware of: SkyTools keeps multiple orbital elements for a single object and then picks the one with an epoch closest in time to when you are calculating the position. So for close approaches I normally have HORIZONS output elements every few hours and then pick one from the beginning of the close approach, one from closest approach, and one from after the close approach and add all three sets of elements.

For very fast movers, I add sets of elements every hour or so throughout.

   

I've tried several times to add more than one set of osculating elements from Horizons. Mainly because their are two windows 24 hours apart to attempt an observation. In the sample shot, I added a set from Aug 3 7UT due to the rock being high (66°) around that time. I went to add the next one on Aug 2 4UT, again due to elevation (68°). As you can see, It did not take the Aug 2 time and I tried two times by clicking "Enter New Minor Planet". Then pasting from Horizons the osculating element set text copied. See image of set.

   

When I bring up the rock from the list of minor planets, only the 3 date is in the list.

[theskyhound]

I just tried this myself with the same object and it worked fine. After pasting the elements from HORIZONS, I typed "2020 PN1" into the designation/name area, and updated the magnitude parameters, and when I looked 2002 PN1 up again, the new elements were listed. Are you sure you typed the designation in exactly?

One thing I didn't try was to see what happens if I enter two orbits with epochs very close in time, say only a few hours apart. I will try that next. I suppose there could have been a change in the code that would cause orbits with such close epochs to overwrite one another, so I will look into that. But I expect that to only happen if the epochs are only a few seconds apart.

[bigmasterdrago]

That's where I'm seeing the issue. The second set attempted to enter new minor planet had an elements ~24 hours apart. Aug 3.29 (7UT) worked. The 2nd set was ~27 hours prior (Aug 2 4UT) - did not take it.

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It did retain 2 other elements that were already there (2021 Feb 21.00 & 2020 May 31.00)

[theskyhound]

Hello,

I just had it hang completely, so something isn't quite right. I suspect that there may be an issue with adding more than one set of elements at a time. Try adding a set, closing completely out of the Minor Planet Database, and then open it back up to enter the next set, etc.

[bigmasterdrago]

I'll try that work when I'm back at the desktop. One thing I noticed way back when trying to implement this process was that any mouse clicks anywhere during the ~270 second computation will cause a freeze and require a close program. So I've learned to just let it run undisturbed.

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I've only ever added just a single osculating set at a time. Then get it all closed. Go back to data, minor planets, enter new minor planet again. Then copy & paste another set. Then let it complete b4 checking what epochs are listed thru a search.

[PMSchu]

Hi Greg,

I saw the same issue that BMD reported when I tried adding elements 6 hr apart. The new elements aren't added to the DB. Having to exit the MP database update dialog & reopen it every time to add a new element set will take a lot of time.
After a MP DB update I see this: [attachment=1894]

It seems to be recomputing the epoch files, etc. It takes several minutes. Blast, it's 2019 NB7, not 2021 NB7! 

In trying to delete the incorrect entry of 2021 NB7, I've corrupted the MP DB 

A search of 2021 NB7 finds 2021 NG1. A search of 2021 NG1 finds 2021 NR1. Not good! Thankfully closing & reopening the MP DB, healed it 

After all that the elements for 2021 Jul 17.25 still don't appear in the MP DB, only 17.75 that was added initially.

Phil S.

[bigmasterdrago]

As for now, I only need a single osculating element set from Horizons near the time of the expected observation to create the finder chart. It will create a track over a specified window of time. Just don't expect to get over a couple of hours outside that time. And the window tightens for those that are really nearby and consequently fast movers.

[theskyhound]

Hi Greg,

I saw the same issue that BMD reported when I tried adding elements 6 hr apart. The new elements aren't added to the DB. Having to exit the MP database update dialog & reopen it every time to add a new element set will take a lot of time.
After a MP DB update I see this: 

It seems to be recomputing the epoch files, etc. It takes several minutes. Blast, it's 2019 NB7, not 2021 NB7! 

In trying to delete the incorrect entry of 2021 NB7, I've corrupted the MP DB 

A search of 2021 NB7 finds 2021 NG1. A search of 2021 NG1 finds 2021 NR1. Not good! Thankfully closing & reopening the MP DB, healed it 

After all that the elements for 2021 Jul 17.25 still don't appear in the MP DB, only 17.75 that was added initially.

Phil S.

Phil,

If you cancel out of the Minor Planet Database it will restore the data to the state it was in before you opened it. Perhaps this is why nothing was updated (or corrupted) after you closed the dialog.

I was suggesting to close the dialog after adding each element set as a workaround and a diagnostic only. I am already working on fixing whatever is happening, but its going to take a little time.