Override the "almost full moon?" [Answered: EAA Version will address this]

[EmeraldHillsSkies]

We have a couple of guests in town staying with us this weekend. They're going to come with me tonight for an observing session with the scope, so I opened up SkyTools in hopes of using the Nightly Observing List Generator. I clicked Showpieces, asked for a "very large" list and clicked the "Create observing list" button. The list came up empty-handed. Then I saw the warning at the bottom: "If your results are empty, please check the date on the nightly planner to ensure that it is not near full moon." One way or another, I'm going to take these guests for an observing session. We all know that, even with a 74% moon, there are indeed objects in the sky that we can all still enjoy - and these guests can only come with me tonight. Using EAA, the 74% moon tonight will almost not even be a factor. Is there any way to override this setting - which renders the Nightly Observing List virtually useless for my needs today? May I request that, in the EAA version, can we add a checkbox that allows the user to "Ignore the impact of the moon"? Because - in this case, - it feels like yet another instance of the software thinking that it's smarter than the user. I say that because it is virtually saying to me, "It's not worth observing tonight." But it *is* worth observing tonight. If I'm out of line, please tell me. Maybe I just need to realize that there's a kind of philosophy behind SkyTools that is, in effect, trying to force me into a box that isn't compatible with my observing style. Maybe I shouldn't be bringing these issues up in the forum. Because there are bound to be other users who would just take SkyTools at its word and skip observing tonight completely. If I'm not that kind of observer, please tell me if I should just go find another targeting list/observing application.

[theskyhound]

Dude. Think about it. Why am I doing an EAA version? I don't think you really understand.

You are currently using the Visual version and it makes calculations for your eyepiece instead of your camera. We have talked at length about how this will not always give appropriate results. It can be useful in many circumstances if kludged properly, but not all. When the moon is up, bright, and/or nearby to your object, you literally can't see many objects visually. Its like being in the center of New York City doing visual astronomy. That's not some generic, the moon is up so Greg will penalize people for the moon being up thing, its an accurate simulation. The actual impact of the moon is calculated for each object.

So why an EAA version? Its not just about putting an FOV rectangle on a chart. The reason for an EAA version is to make the computations for your camera, to calculate the signal on your detector of both the object and the sky, under varying conditions such as moonlight. I am very good at that. There is a whole imaging version of the software. The moon impacts your camera differently. Sometimes that will mean you can't get a decent image of something with the moon up, and other times it means you can. The idea is to be able to know the difference and plan accordingly. That is not a limitation that you will need to work around.

The is the second time you have asked me to make changes to SkyTools in the EAA version. But you only need them to get around the fact that you are currently using the version for visual observing. This is obvious to me. How can I help you understand that your complaints will not apply to the EAA version? All you will need is the EAA version to be happy. You will not have these issues once you have that. I don't know how to explain this more clearly. What you see as limitations of the software are limitations entirely due to the mismatch of your camera to an eyepiece.

In the meantime, please stop accusing SkyTools of being limiting. It is not. Your issue is with using the visual version. Your frustrations come about from using the visual version. Please, for goodness sake do not be telling people that SkyTools is limiting! That would be super unfair of you! You were informed going in that you need the EAA features for it to work properly. To hold that against me and my product is wrong.

Goldilocks walks into the SkyTools store with a camera on her telescope and a desire to do EAA. She tries SkyTools Imaging. But its designed to support long exposure photography and does not work for her. "Why do I have to create an Imaging Project for everything," she cries in annoyance. She tries SkyTools Visual, but that has problems too. "Why is it telling me I can't take images of a galaxy in broad moonlight?" SkyTools is broken! SkyTools is limiting! Then Greg rolls out the shiny new SkyTools Visual with EAA support, and she tries that. "It accurately tells me which objects I can see on the screen and how long I'll need to stack to make them visible or look good", she says. "It tells me if the moon is too bright to detect that faint galaxy. I use it to be sure that I help people on my youtube channel understand that EAA is still astronomy, still bound by issues like atmospheric extinction and moonlight, only differently", she says. SkyTools Visual with EAA is just right.

Dude. Trust me.

[theskyhound]

To put it another way: the Nightly Observing List Generator is providing results for visual observing. The next version will provide appropriate results for EAA.

That should be obvious.

[PMSchu]

Doug,

  As a work around for an empty Nightly Observing List Generator (NOLG) output, try setting the date for the NOLG calculation to 7 to 10 days earlier than when you plan to observe. The moon will be less of an issue then & your NOLG output will have some nice objects to observe. The NOLG isn't forced to your date of observation - pick any date that works for you, especially if the moon will interfere. The deep sky objects will be in the same place every night. Once the NOLG list is created it will work for another date too.

  Also, do you have some favorite objects that would look good with EAA? Build your own list & show what EAA can do under moonlit skies. Don't you have that OL with 1001 objects in it? How many of them will be favorably placed when your friends visit?

  Clear skies!

Hope this helps,

Phil S.

[EmeraldHillsSkies]

Greg, in the first place, thanks for taking time to respond. In the second place, thanks for your work for the sake of EAA!!!! One of the reasons I'm investing so much energy (and the entrance price) in SkyTools is because you are investing time and energy in EAA! Thank you!

Can't wait to see it!

Phil, both of your ideas are good. I'll try them. Thanks!